Michel Tilmant: Energize and inspire
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LONDON, England (CNN) -- CNN Financial Editor Todd Benjamin speaks to Michel Tilmant, Chairman of the Executive Board of ING. The following is a transcript of the interview.
Q. Michel, first of all, you're one of the first non-Dutchmen to head up ING, what has that allowed you to do that you might not otherwise have been able to do?
A. Well I don't think I was chosen for my nationality. I was probably the right man at the right time for the right job -- that was why I was chosen. If you were not involved, you know, for years and years, you can have some distance, and I think that is probably the advantage I have.
Q. You've restructured ING by separating the banking and the insurance unit, you've sold off parts of the business that weren't working, this is the third restructuring that you've done. What have you learned through this process?
A. First of all, ING developed itself by a number of acquisitions over the years to become this large international group, and I thought that it was necessary to simplify the organization to make sure that things were more transparent and more accountable, the organization was more accountable. So that was the objective of my re-organization. I think also that after so many years of acquisition it was time to take a step back and say, "ok what is really necessary in this portfolio what is not necessary, and are we going to concentrate ourselves?"
Q. But when you do your restructuring tough decisions need to be made, what lessons have you learned from this process?
A. Well I think when you have to make decisions you have to make them, and make them fast and I think that is what I learned. I think that you cannot wait, because the world moves around you and you have to basically take those measures as quickly as you can so that you can concentrate what is essential.
Q. It seems in any restructuring identifying what isn't working and selling it off is the easier part, the tough job is figuring out how to build the business long term?
A. Yes [nods in agreement]. And at ING we have three areas on which we want to build our business. One is, the fact that there is a growing population, but the governments are more and more transferring to the private sector, the management and the servicing of the pensions. That is very important we built on that, on that change. Second, the new paradigm, the distribution of financial services, with the direct distribution and we built on that new paradigm. And third, the shift of wealth from the traditional western countries to the new fast developing countries and we are building also on that trend. So those are three fundamental trends on which we want to build the strategy of ING.
Q. But as a leader how do you develop the company's vision?
A. Well, first of all, I believe as a leader that you have to listen. You have to listen to the market, and you have to listen what the markets tells you. And then you have to basically with your colleagues think about how can we best capture those trends based on our skills. And then you have to basically send clear direction to the people.
Q. Now ING is out of the investment banking business -- do you have much respect for investment bankers or do you think they're wildly over-paid?
A. Oh, I was educated in an investment bank! I worked for JP Morgan for 15 years. So I have a lot of sympathy for their business, but at the same times, I know it required very good skills, it required also that you have a very strong market to develop your business. And therefore you need skills and market -- and I think that we have those skills and we have a market in Holland, we are in this business, in the market we can basically develop our business and we do it well. By the way, today also banking is the most profitable division of ING.
Q. I was looking at your building coming up here, it's all glass, and my understanding is that several of your buildings have an unusual design -- what does that represent?
A. Well, first of all, ING has a very important real estate portfolio, for years, and for years we have been, you know, given a lot of attention to make sure that those building are bringing something to society and if you want to bring something to society it is important that you differentiate yourself and that is what we try to do.
Q. I want to ask you some questions here on leadership; what do you think separates a good leader from a great leader?
A. Well I think what makes a difference is that a great leader can inspire and can energize. Two fantastic qualities, I think. Because a leader has to, you know, read the market, and watch to the market, want to make sure that, you know, he gives direction to the people, wants to make sure that he can employ people to move, that he can motivate people. But at the end the real difference is energizing and inspiring.
Q. How do you energize and inspire?
A. I think you need to have strong values, you need to have a clear direction, and I think also that you have to have human values.
Q. What do you mean by human values?
A. I think that it is very important in a job like mine to keep the fundamental values which matter, and you know, I think that we have business principles in our company, but I think behind those business principles is the human values on which you have built your own personality that count.
Q. Can you elaborate?
A. Well I think you need to have empathy for people, you need to understand the people character, you need to have some, some moral values on which you build your beliefs and I think that is very important, because people watch you. And as a leader the way you behave, ok, is very important because the institution are looking permanently how you behave and they adapt to that so if you have good human behavior they will adapt to that, if a leader does not they would probably adapt to that too.
Q. But when I see you interacting with your young staff it seems to me they give you a lot of energy?
A. Oh they give me a lot of energy of course! Because you know, young staff has fresh talent, they have trained professionalism, they have energy, and I think that gives me a lot of personal motivation to move forward.
Q. What do you think the biggest mistake most CEOs make is?
A. Oh that is very clear for me. It's basically, disconnect themselves from reality and start believing your own story.
Q. Can you elaborate?
A. Well, I think that if you are a chief executive the big risk is you start distancing yourself from reality because you run the risk to work in an ivory tower - and no, you have to go back to the floor, to the work floor, try to understand what's going on, and make sure that you keep connected with the reality - that is very very important. And I think you have also to make sure that what you say and what motivation you give to your people is also connected to that reality and you don't start believing in your story, which is completely disconnected from what people in the company believe.
Q. What do you look for in your key lieutenants?
A. I look for professional skills, I look for personality, and I look for human values.
Q. And can you tell by talking to someone if they have those, what you call, human values?
A. I think human values are something that, you know, you can talk about it, but it is much more important to walk the talk. And walking the talk is the most important way to express your human values.
Q. You've been recorded as saying "I'm very interested in making sure that the people around me are very concentrated on execution and performance, I like those things, it's probably the way I was born and raised"...
A. Yes, yes I think, you know, if you want to build a great company, which is what I call an excellent company, then you need people concentrating on getting things done and on getting the best performance possible. And that means having a vision and a direction and also to be attentive to the details that matter.
Q. These all seem to be buzz words -- how do you make sure that happens?
A. I prefer to talk to the people than to read long reports. My technique is to walk around and speak to people - try to find out what is going on in the company, and make sure I can stay connected with them.
Q. I want to ask you - how would you describe your own management style?
A. I think I am pragmatic, I'm involved and I'm energized.
Q. And I take it that you believe leadership is something that is innate, not learned?
A. Well, I think it is something that you basically get born with. But you can be learning to be better every day.
Q. Was there an incident when you were young that made you think, "Michel -- he's a leader"?
A. I wouldn't say so. I think that, I wouldn't say so, I think that, in my early days I was not a very good student, and I started feeling comfortable when I was at university and after. I think what makes a big difference for me is the opportunity that I received when I was relatively young to - young in my career - to travel. And that gave me a lot of exposure and helped me a lot in developing my skills.
Q. Now talking about travel, after graduating from a Belgian university on a government subsidy you traveled to the U.S. To find out how engineering companies were handling emerging market projects, now on the surface this, quite frankly, this sounds boring as hell, but what I'm interested in is how did that visit to the United States - did that have a major impact on you?
A. A major impact on me. Major, because, you know, I left Belgium, I was twenty-four, with my suitcase, and I traveled for a year. I never stayed the same place more than 15 days. And I came back a year later alone. And I had traveled through all the United States, and I had met many people, many characters, many interesting people, and I was myself alone for a year and this is a fantastic experience to develop yourself. You really learn about yourself, you learn to basically, to be comfortable in unknown territory, and learn also to build your own life - which I think was a very important experience.
Q. And this helped to build your confidence?
A. Yeah it helped to build my confidence and a feeling that I can that I could, basically, operate on my own.
Q. Do you think you would be the leader you are today without that experience?
A. You know, you build leadership over a number of experiences over the years, but this was a critical one, because this was a critical juncture between university and work. And this give me immediately the appetite, by the way, to go back to the states and certainly helped me in the process of joining, at the time, JP Morgan to move back to New York.
Q. How did that experience at JP Morgan, as a young banker, shape your business philosophy?
A. I think the philosophy of JP Morgan was very strong in professional training but also, I think, in business principals, and I think professional training and business principals that I learned there helped me throughout my whole career.
Q. What do you think your greatest strength is as a manager?
A. Common sense.
Q. Greatest weakness?
A. Impatience.
Q. Your biggest concern right now?
A. I'd like to know what I don't know.
Q. What do you mean?
A. Well in a job like my job, you, you know what you know, and you control what you know, but there are always new events, situations that change, that you would like to know before they happen.
Q. Wouldn't we all! [laughs] How would you describe your own personality?
A. Well I think, I think, I am pragmatic, involved, energized, and I try to pre-empt, permanently the events.
Q. Well you've been described as naturally charming but consciously seductive...[Michel laughs]... Gregarious and easily approachable, and ... abrupt.
A. Well, that's interesting. I didn't read myself. I didn't read that, but that's an interesting comment.
Q. What is it about business that you really love?
A. The action. I think that, you know, in business, especially in a company like this, providing you with so many opportunities, so many experiences, so many new things to discover, that it is a daily experience. There is no dull day, in my job.
Q. And if you could give advice, to somebody who wanted to go into business what would it be?
A. I would say that you need to learn some professional skills. You need to stick to some very strong human values, and you never loose your common sense.
Q. And you're still relatively young, but what do you want your legacy to be, do you think?
A. I want to leave behind me an excellent company. Excellent company for the people who work here, excellent company providing good service to the customers, and excellent company in providing return to share holders. I think we have to be careful, as chief executive, not to develop dreams that can lead to mistakes. I think we have to make sure that we manage the company to excellence, and that's a daily effort.
Q. Do you think there is anything in your childhood experience that shaped you fundamentally?
A. Well, I think I was a relatively shy, young boy and I was not very much skilled at sports, or even at school I was pretty average and that forced my character permanently to fight to perform. I was always relatively weak physically, when I was young, and I think those things forced me to fight.
Q. So it gave you a lot of drive?
A. A lot of drive, yes
Q. Did you feel you had something to prove to the world as you got older?
A. No. I'm not motivated by that. I'm not motivated by that.
Q. What motivates you?
A. I think that what motivates me is achieving objectives that have an impact, an impact on customers in our case, on people that work here, on shareholders, that's what motivates me.
source : CNN
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